Which Vendors Are Prepared To Win the SME Market?

Bob Thompson
Founder, CRMGuru.com
Member

Posted 09-Feb-2004 09:50 AM

Question:

Much has been made of the battle for the SME market. But experts say it's still highly fragmented, and both SMEs and CRM vendors are confused about how to make CRM deliver results to smaller businesses. Which vendor(s) are best prepared to win in the SME market?

Bob Thompson
Founder, CRMGuru.com

[This message was edited by Bob Thompson on 25-Feb-2004 at 06:37 PM.]

Choices:
Microsoft
SalesLogix
Onyx
Salesforce
Other or none of the above

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Karen Maguire
Member

Posted 12-Feb-2004 01:03 PM

We have been testing MSCRM for three days and it is an incredible disappointment. No data ingtegrity checks; an elemental search tool; no ability to search notes by contact; no ability to create a real realtionship from a set of contact. Microsoft should be embarassed. This isn't something that can be easily fixed with the next version, because it touched on the architecture. Small businesses will end up with the same useless data they have now with ACT and Goldmine.

Dr. Karen Maguire
Satuit Technologies, Inc.
CRM for the Investment Professional
http://www.satuit.com

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Julian Sharp
Member

Posted 12-Feb-2004 06:14 PM

Karen, I would have to disagree but I understand the sentiment. Microsoft have admitted there is much missing in v1.2 which has just been released and have stated that they are expecting their ISV partners to add functionality to meet requirements both horizontally and vertically.

Some direct responses:

You are wrong in your statement about the issues you quote being architectural.
Data Integrity is in v2.0 due at the end of this year but Scribe www.scribesoft.com does the job extremely well now

For search facilities www.c360.com c360's SearchPac is really a necessity
Many to Many account/contact relationships is planned for v2.0

My biggest regret is the lack of even a simle campaign screen—it can be done with some customisation but it would have been much nicer for it to be built in.

My take on MSCRM is that this is the start of a long term plan for Microsoft. For some potential users may be worth waiting for v2 or even v3 in 2005, for others it will be worth dipping their toe in now and learn about CRM so they are more ready.

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Posted 12-Feb-2004 10:39 PM

Everyone is eyeing the SME market with the big ones going to the big ones.

Even small ITES providers should look at SME market to offer deffered pricing models

Sushil

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Posted 13-Feb-2004 12:06 AM

RE direct sales team environements. As I am deeply involved with sme sales teams I think all vendors will struggle. Managers believe that they only keep their customers thru personal relationships. A heavy reliance on the sales force. CRM is perceived as a control device that only angers sales people. The fear of losing good sales people stops CRM in its tracks. Its an old story that is very amplified in sme.

Meanwhile Salesforce is gaining traction cause its pitched as a service—its more palatable to the same people.

In telemarketing (oustide of hard core call centres) Saleslogix is carving a niche.

Onyx too hard to use.

Microsoft is really focussing on mid & large an having the same issues any substantial implementation.

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Posted 26-Feb-2004 10:35 AM

quote:CRM is perceived as a control device that only angers sales people. The fear of losing good sales people stops CRM in its tracks.

I empathise with that sentiment, but tough luck. Salespeople dont want ANYTHING that they percieve interferes with their sale. Fufillment and sales historically butt heads constantly due to lead times, inventory levels, etc. If sales ran the world every company would be carring millions in obsolete inventory.

I have found that older established sales force are much more resistant to using anything but an ACT database of their own making becasue they view it as 'control'. While the hungrier salesperson veiws CRM as a means to an end.

Dont be fooled. even SME management understands (or is coming to understand) the benefits of data integrity and consistancy. If I had to choose what was best for my SME versus what is best for an individual sales rep, that isnt even a choice to make.

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Posted 26-Feb-2004 12:47 PM

Hello,

I'm in a one-person consulting business and am going into another area, but still one-person; this is really SMALL business! All I see at this point is that the "old reliable" combination of Microsoft Outlook, maybe the Small Business Management tools, and Excel are still the most attractive tools for someone who is relatively computer-smart.

One buys all these tools with the standard Office package (MS or other), which means no additional cash out. That's a large hurdle to overcome. In addition, you use the same tools for your personal business as well. That means no additional training is necessary. Another large hurdle. I haven't looked, but I suspect that there are a few add-on software tools that would help with the call-center functions, but how can a different program compete with this?

I'm open-minded, does anybody have any other ideas?

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Paul Sweeney
Member

Posted 26-Feb-2004 01:56 PM

You have left out many players in this market. Microsoft makes much noise but I would suggest that the software stack needed to run their CRM will kill the budget for most SMEs. Also, consider the maintenance headache.

One alternative that was not presented was ACCPAC's CRM. It's a very nice product that integrates with two SME accounting packages out of the box. It can be installed locally or it can be used as a rented application ala Salesforce.com. Additionally, it is multi-lingual (English, French, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese).

As a fully browser based product it is easy to deploy and maintain. Finally, it has good security to separate territories, sales staff, etc. I would suggest it is worth considering.

Paul Sweeney
Custom Media

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Posted 04-Mar-2004 01:25 PM

Currently in the middle of implementing Microsoft CRM, I have to agree there's a lot to be disappointed about in the product—there's no question that in a features-list sense, the product is far behind the other players mentioned. The developers also made some very odd UI choices that make daily usage much clumsier than it needs to be.

So why would anyone buy it? I think the strongest case for it is in SMBs that are already Microsoft-based (running Exchange, SQL Server, Office/Outlook) and are looking for either (a) a lot of flexibility to build-your-own systems integrating the CRM databases with other SQL Server/.Net-based apps, or (b) an easily configurable sales force automation platform to support an in-house team selling from a straightforward product catalog.

We knew that we'd be dealing with typical MS "v1.0" issues when we bought the product, but even we have been surprised by the rudimentary state of the initial release. As with every other product, v3.0 will probably be very competitive... in the interim, I'm hoping that ISVs provide solutions to many of the shortcomings.

Barry Smith
Virtuoso, Ltd.

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Bhupesh
Member

Posted 04-Mar-2004 10:56 PM

SMEs traditionally have varied requirements though they try to emulate the requirements of the big players. The primary concern of all SMEs is the cost factor in implementing solutions...

To add to this, the varied size of the businesses in the SME segment governs the techincal knowledge and resrouces available for the implementation...

These factors and the fact that the concept of CRM is just starting to be understood by the SMEs, I think that ASP providers like Salesforce would be a force to be reckoned with in this segment. There are even some providers which provide open-source and simple-to-implement solutions for specific aspects of CRM.

I agree with Craig that SMALL business have been and would keep using the easily available tools like MS Outlook/Eudora/MS Access/MS Excel for "implementating" their CRM intiative.

Bhupesh Malhotra

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Posted 08-Mar-2004 03:18 PM

Hello,

Thank you for mentioning ACCPAC's CRM.

I just saw this release .... ISM announces Winners of CRM Software. March 2, 2004

Medium & Small Business Solutions

*ACCPAC CRM v. 5.6—ACCPAC International
*Ardexus MODE v. 4.1.1—Ardexus, Inc.
*Powertrak v. 6.2—Axonom, Inc.
*SalesLogix v. 6.1—Best Software
*Firstwave CRM—Firstwave Technologies, Inc.
*Goldmine v. 6.5 & HEAT v. 8.0—FrontRange Solutions, Inc.
*iETSolutions Enterprise v. 9.4.1—iETSolutions
*Maximizer Enterprise for Notes 2003.7—Interchange Solutions
*Maximizer Enterprise 7.5—Maximizer Software, Inc.
*NetCRM v. 9.1 & NetSuite v. 9.1—NetSuite, Inc.
*Salesforce.com—Salesforce.com
*Siebel CRM OnDemand—Siebel Systems, Inc.
*StayinFront Visual Elk v. 9.1—StayinFront, Inc.
*marketing.manager 6—update Software AG

I wish I was more familiar with them all, this is a long list. Do you see any more long-term winners, beyond the list Bob has?

Share Reeves

(i don't work with ISM :-) )

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Posted 11-Mar-2004 10:38 AM

Share, it's interesting to note that the Axonom Powertrak product is an add-on to MS CRM, which provides better campaign management and many to many relationship functionality lacking in the current versions.

These are all good players, many with specific strengths, but it would seem logical that MS will quickly dominate through its ISV's, technology base in the sector, and development resources. SalesLogix may have the greatest vulnerability in growing market share outside of users of their other products. Onyx is shaky, and could represent a good acquisition target for either MS or SL. As for Salesforce, smaller organizations (or divisions of large organizations) will find it very valuable, but at the larger end of the SME spectrum, say over 300 users and legacy integration needs, it's just too high a price tag. Many of the others are niche players and will stay under the MS/SL radar.

So, as it has in the past, MS will use its resources, channel and technology dominance to conquer this underserved market and provide functionality that was unattainable before, even if there is some ramp-up pending.

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Julian Sharp:
Karen, I would have to disagree but I understand the sentiment. Microsoft have admitted there is much missing in v1.2 which has just been released and have stated that they are expecting their ISV partners to add functionality to meet requirements both horizontally and vertically.QUOTE]

May I say that I am stunned that anyone would think relying on ISV partners for functionality is okay? Especially when those ISV partners are anyone who signs up to be an ISV and are not required to go through any product or financial certification.

Scribe is a superb product but MS CRM should have its own data integrity functionality. MS CRM should not be relying on ISV's for core, basic product functionality that all SFA or CRM users expect in a base product. MS CRM is one of the highest priced CRM tools for SME's but has about 25% of the functionality of an applications like GoldMine, SalesLogix or ACCPAC CRM. And what they are "going to do" does bring ROI or results from the CRM tool today.

The only firms that should be investing in MS CRM are those who don't have consistent contact management. But for those firms who have been working with contact manager and are ready to move to true CRM or opportuntity management, then they need to take a look at ACCPAC CRM, SalesLogix or other products in that market.

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Posted 11-Mar-2004 12:34 PM

KC you make a good point—> "MS CRM is one of the highest priced CRM tools ... but has about 25% of the functionality of applications..."

I've found the add-on point-solutions for MS CRM make the cost for each user 20% higher. Adding enhanced Search, SpellChecker, Activity Summary add $100 to each seat. Plus, plus, if you really want to maximize the thin features.

However, I'm sure MS will be adding these in. Maybe they should cut us some slack in "basic seat" pricing now (?).

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Posted 11-Mar-2004 03:13 PM

With the acquisition of ACCPAC SAGE/BEST/Sales Logix really has positioned themselves well. Sales Logix, stable, deep functionality client server product, ACCPAC CRM 100% web based and available (the only product available) in an onsite deployed and in a hosted environment. this gives SME's a very smooth transition from hosted (no overhead) to onsite deployed CRM becuase it is the same codebase for both products. should be interesting to see how the next 24 months shape up.

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Posted 16-Mar-2004 01:21 AM

There is one other that I think can do very well but only if they market themselves better and develop a quality implementtion partner channel: Selligent.

This product has an exceptionally easy to use interface, have excellent flexibility and can be deployed via web browser or client-server. The web browser is very, very fast (faster than ACCPAC's).

For the SME looking for functionality and quality this one is well worth considering.

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Posted 26-Mar-2004 05:46 AM

I read with interest your comments regarding CRM vendors suitable for the SME market.

I am the Director for Business Incubation at Sheffield Technology Parks. SME's require narrow data management facilities and greater statistical analysis tools with which to develop client relationships. Yes they see relationship as face to face but they also know that speed and responsiveness are critical to their insurgency strategies.

My organisation has implemented CRM using a package from eBisgen in Chesterfield and discovered that tailoring has met our immediate needs whilst maintaining structure for future development.

We don't know if we made a wise choice but I am yet to hear of a magical experience derived from CRM implementation.

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Posted 09-Jun-2004 07:50 AM

Having just finished implementing a CRM/SFA solution with Salesboom.com, revenue forecasts are predicting about a 200% ROI by the end of three quarters, simply in reduced talk time and customer contact overhead decreases. Their sales team was what made the difference, though—knowledgeable and understanding, they had a customized solution rolled out and deployable almost to the letter of what we asked for within about 60 days.

- Justin

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Posted 12-Aug-2004 02:02 PM

Justin,

I'm very interested in Salesboom.com. How did you decide on deploying it.

Doug